Comments on: Proposition 8 has passed in California

By: Pam

Pam — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 21:31:02 +0000

Let’s not address the right or wrong or I call it the tit-for-tat of this topic/issue. The bottom line is that marriage is defined as one man one woman from inception there is no way around it, holy matrimony was designed by God (like it or not) and was established one man and one woman. Your argument as you present it, is with God the one who created it.
I have an idea, because you stressed (several of you that have blogged in) so passionately about your belief or relationships in same sex unions why not be productive. With all your energy and passion (and it may take that) refocus your efforts and instead of spinning your wheels trying to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Why not come up with something for yourselves that truly reflects who you are. You are not a traditional couple anyway so why even worry about looking traditional. You could establish for yourselves something permanent (a celebration and service of your own) to not only reflect your lifestyle but further establish your unions as a legal entity. Then you could start to work with insurance companies to accept you as such, a legal union and give you legal rights that you would be entitled to just as other (legally recognized) couples have. Because you then would be legally established unions/couples your position would have to be addressed by the insurance companies. Why would they have to address you’re legally established union you might ask? Because the insurance companies are a corporation operating in the United States of American and they operate under our non-discrimination laws that are already on the books? If they provide services for couples (one man and one woman) unions (holy matrimony/marriage) they would have to by law provide the same for other legally recognized unions (same sex). Why is this not an option for you? If a small percentage of the country (the handicapped) can get the best parking spaces and have ramps and elevators installed on their behalf along with many more accommodations and have them placed into laws and the building codes of our country than surely you can gather some creative people on your behalf to do the same for your cause. And those individuals (representing the handicapped) my guess are using the non-discrimination laws to their benefit.
That is if what you really want is a legally recognized union, and the same rights as such in the land where you live. If what you truly want is to be excepted as you are and are looking for laws to be established to support you and to have the protections provided to other unions, this to me would be your best solution. Based on what I have heard and seen, it seems to me you are trying very hard to fall under the heading of something as defined and so traditional that does not and cannot reflect you and your lifestyle.
Ask yourself what it is that you truly want to accomplish, to build something productive for yourself and others that will live after you something that others are sure to enjoy or to be harmful and/or destructive to a long established and much cherished union. I believe your actions and your response will expose what you truly want to accomplish. Anyone can complain and falsely accuse and finger point when they don’t get what they want, just remember when you point a finger at anyone else there is always three pointing back at you. You are the generation that can make a difference for same sex unions, if you so believe in them then establish them on their own merits. Put your money where your mouth is. And stop complaining about not getting to belong to something you don’t want to belong to anyway. For it to be fitting and suitable for you it would have to be redefined.
Think about this as well, if you structure it, (same sex unions) define it, establish it then no one can come along later and redefine it, such as one man and two women or one woman two men, or one child and one adult. I hope I have given you something to think about.

By: M.O.M.

M.O.M. — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:39:09 +0000

My, how people can chase rabbits around the outside of a subject and never cut to the center of the issue (no tone intended). We have words like tolerance and acceptance in our vocabulary for a reason — we are all different in oh so many ways. We don’t all feel the same way about things but we should tolerate and accept each other’s differences. We don’t have to like it, or agree with it. I’ve been know to “se what I see,” because I “want what I want.” Just because someone doesn’t think the same way as you or me doesn’t always mean they’re wrong, or stupid. Sometimes they are, sometimes we are Again I say, the freedom to choose does not always mean equal rights — it also doesn’t mean there won’t be some sort of consequences, real or inflicted. Anyone who goes through life with the idea that what they do doesn’t effect anyone else has blinders on, because we do not live alone, work alone, shop alone, etc’, we interact with others all day long. We don’t always know how much or how little what we do effects others, but it happens (I’m not saying that should change your choices, just be honest that everything we do touches others). As for “separation of church and state,” please read what Aunt Barb said about that topic, it’s spot on. Proposition 8 doesn’t have anything to do with “feelings” towards individuals that have chosen a gay lifestyle, it’s not about gays being “less than” anyone else, and it’s not about “hate.” I can still choose to love someone even if I don’t agree with their choices (this is a choice available to all). This is about the definition of “marriage.” It’s in the Bible and in our laws that a marriage is between one man and one woman — not one man and another man that acts like a woman, not one women and another woman that acts like a man. As Aunt Barb and I mentioned above, the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are supposed to be separated by sexes as that’s how they were set up. A Boy Scout is a young male scout, and a Girl Scout is a young female scout. To change that you have to change the definition of what a male and female are. Nobody knows what the future will bring, but for now this country is not quite ready to redefine what a man is, what a woman is, nor what marriage is. And yet, this country doesn’t make it “illegal” to choose to live a gay lifestyle. We all suffer prejudices for a variety of things; weight, height, education, race, rich, poor, age, religion…time changes some things, some things don’t change over time…

By: Kelsey Little

Kelsey Little — Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:38:29 +0000

I will make this my last entry, it is clear that some people want nothing but to blame hate for a difference of opinion. Have fun in your dream world (jzzy) of “agree with me or you hate me”. The reality is what was stated over and over, a difference of opinion, but I guess some people will always hate. Just remember hate causes stress and that will shorten your life. I for one do not want to read one more blog about am hated, life is unfair because someone disagrees with me.
Dean “Thank you” for the fun I have had reading your blogs and getting to be a part of them, sharing your vacations and all the other topics but the last. Please don’t misunderstand I don’t dislike talking about the subject I just don’t care for people that don’t know me and try to tell me how I feel. I do not believe in hating someone because they are different and do not want to take my time to express an opinion and have someone tell me I hate them when that is not what I said, you know how frustrating it is when people put word in your mouth.
Since this was the first time I ever read or got involved in blogging I learned allot. The biggest is that I do not want to do it again. As you I am very busy and have many things I wish to accomplish and complete. I wish you the best with you blogging site, you have much to say and share and I do not know very many young people that have it together like you do.
Dean my Father told me that one day that when you were about 12 years old that you told him just what you were going to do with your life, school, college, job, money, ect…. and you have followed the path you told him that day. I agree with my Dad, that is awesome.

By: jzzy

jzzy — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 16:23:51 +0000

Alrighty. Let me just start by saying that I grew up in a small town in east Texas that was the definition of a melting pot; many different cultures mingling without a second thought. My parents were catholic and we went to church every Sunday but I was never told that I, or anyone else, was different. I was never treated any differently by my friends or their parents. We were a community.

That view of the world never waned. I’ve never disliked or treated anyone different just because they were different. The only exception would be the ignorant that would choose to single out or bully those that were. I grew up year’s after the Civil Rights Movement but I saw how important that was and what it did for our country. The hate and blatant ignorance of the “majority” against the “minority” that existed then still survives today in small pockets. If it sounds like I am off topic, I am not. The struggle that was going on then is what is happening today, albeit a different subject. A group of people want equality and you have the “greater than thou” stepping in and saying No. Simple as that. I’ve always asked the question, what does this mean to you? Why do you care what someone else does with their life that makes them happy? They certainly are not hurting anyone, especially not you. Of course there is the subject of the bible and in that god states that marriage is between a man and a woman. That is all fine and dandy but like Dean stated above, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state, but as last week proved that is not the case.

Kelsey Little brought up a good point at where does it stop if we redefine marriage. The subject of pedophelia and bestiality came up. The only difference is that being a homosexual is not illegal (I made sure I didnt put them all in one sentence). And it wasnt long ago (as recent as 1967) that interracial marriages were illegal. That means that a man and a woman could not marry because they were not of the same race(?).

Another ridiculous bill was passed in Arkansas just as recently that banned homosexuals from adopting children, although a similar bill was thrown out of the courts in 2006. It worked this time through Conservative’s grass-roots campaign through various church groups. “We believe that the best place for a child to grow up is in a stable home with a married mother and father,” said Jerry Cox, president of Family Council Action Committee, which obtained 95,000 signatures to place the proposal on state ballots. “But we also believe in blunting a gay agenda that we see at work in other states with regard to marriage and adoption issues.” Welfare of children aside. Nevermind the sheer amount of children already without families or homes. Let’s limit their chances even more by taking well-to-do american citizens out of the equation. Only because we do not agree with their lifestyle.

I guess the question isn’t when to stop re-defining marriage, its when to stop the hate.

By: Dean

Dean — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:06:48 +0000

I think there have been many different points of view expressed here. Some I agree with, and some I don’t. Though I cannot say any points brought up have changed my desire to see laws like this one overturned, I can say that everyone who has commented here has been able to open my eyes a little to a different point of view. I will never respect someone less for being up front and honest with me about their opinions, so I’m glad everyone felt comfortable chiming in.

By: Aunt Barb

Aunt Barb — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:14:19 +0000

Dean: I am going to try to take your rant and answer it point by point. I plan to keep it short, but I’ll probably not succeed there, so here goes. Just because someone does not agree with you does not make them bigoted or hateful. I believe marriage is between one man and one woman and I do not consider myself a bigot or hateful. I feel like I have as much right to my opinion as you do to yours without being called names.
The issue has never been whether gay people feel real love for each other. I believe they do. The issue is that marriage has always been, throughout the whole world since the beginning of time, a union between men and women. Incidentally, this is a belief held by many atheists and agnostics as well, and not just religious groups. Even in the most remote tribes/civilizations being discovered, the institution of their unions (marriage) is between men and women. I find it interesting that you choose to focus your rant only on religious groups and ignore the atheist and agnostics who most assuredly voted for Proposition 8. Are they less hateful to you because they chose to vote their convictions and keep their views private?
You intimate that the protectors of marriage are bigots, hypocrites, and hateful people who get divorced, have extra-marital affairs, and are sexually promiscuous ALL THEIR LIVES. Aren’t you labeling in a way you detest being labeled? Percentage-wise I think there is as much infidelity and promiscuity among gays as there is among non-gays. We are all human.
The question begs to be asked: if marriage as it exists is between people who divorce, have affairs, and are promiscuous ALL THEIR LIVES, why are you pursuing the alignment of yourself to it?
You stated the United States is not supposed to be ruled by any one religion. You are correct. It is supposed to be government rule by the majority. The majority has spoken, just as they spoke in the election and did not elect the man I voted for. The man they elected got the majority of the vote so I have a new President. The majority doesn’t always see things my way but I am thankful to live in a country where I have a voice and the opportunity to vote for my position—even if I don’t win.
You speak of separation of church and state. You need to read the Constitution for yourself and quit blindly swallowing what the media dishes out. The words “separation of church and state” are not in the Constitution. The Constitution says, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”. The Constitution regulates Congress, not religious groups.
You say it broke your heart because people were dancing and smiling and hugging each other because their side won. Does it always break your heart when winners celebrate, or only when you are not on the winning side? Everybody celebrates when their side/team/candidate, etc. wins—at football games, races, card games, lawsuits, whatever! When you say you saw hate and not joy, could it be because that is what you wanted to see. Perhaps it is time for you to objectively examine your own heart.
People were not campaigning against granting equal rights. They were campaigning for something important to them. Actually, you already have equal rights—the same right to marriage as everyone else in this country. Everyone in this country has the right to marry within the confines of the law of the land. Older people cannot marry 12 year olds no matter how much they love each other. People cannot marry someone who is already legally married to someone else, no matter how much they love each other.
You want to be very careful about using the Bible stick to defend your point of view. The Bible is a whole package and you don’t get to pick and choose according to your position. You seem to embrace Matthew 7:1—“Judge not that ye be not judged,” and Matthew 22:39—“Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself” (you left off part of the love thy neighbor sentence). Then you seem to ignore Leviticus 18:22—“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” You might want to step back from using the Bible either for yourself or against others.
Dan says that someday you’ll “get to drink from the same fountain.” What I see is that you are not asking to drink from the same fountain. You are seeking to reinvent the fountain, make it the only fountain in town, and force everyone to drink from it.
The dictionary defines marriage as the formal union of a man and a woman. Husband is defined as the man to whom a woman is married. Wife is defined as a female partner in a marriage. Spouse is defined as a person’s husband or wife. Therefore, same sex marriage cannot exist unless the definitions of these terms are changed throughout the English-speaking world. Instead of 5% of the population trying to force the majority to change these definitions, why not work on creating a different union with different titles that are special to you, that represent your level of commitment and bonding. Then work on getting it recognized by government, insurance companies, etc.
You stated churches were trying to make same-sex marriage illegal. That is not entirely accurate. Same-sex marriage has never been legal under the law of the land. The supporters of the proposition were seeking a Constitutional Amendment to protect something they valued from judicial rulings seeking to change the law without a vote. In this country we have the right to vote and when judges seek to circumvent that process and make law by virtue of their personal opinions, people have to resort to Constitutional Amendments to protect the right to live under a government of majority rule, and to protect the privilege of voting. Also, churches were not the only people who were in favor or the passage of the amendment. Many atheists and agnostics believe in the current definition of marriage. You were pretty critical about how churches were spending their money. Would these be churches you financially support—would these funds be funds that you contributed to these churches? If you don’t support or contribute, you have no bitchin’ rights. Additionally, contributions received by churches are a lot like taxes paid by citizens. You don’t fully get a say in how the money is spent even when you contribute.
You accuse churches of trying to distract you from the bigger issues by plying you with candy, and then you turn around and use the same distraction techniques by citing marriage of racial minorities to support your position. Racial minorities are not in the minority where marriage is concerned. The law of the land does not prevent marriage between ethnic groups. It should not surprise you to find that the majority of people in interracial marriages support traditional marriage.
You say you don’t have a choice who you love, and then you say that you choose to love someone for who they are. That sounds like choice to me. I believe that you absolutely do choose who you love. That is totally each individual’s choice. The criteria individuals use to select the ones they love is also a choice, whether it is physical, mental, material, sex, race, etc. To think that who I love is beyond my choice would scare me to death to ever leave home. What if, against my will, I fell madly in love with the third person I encountered?!? To say that you don’t have a choice is to give up your personal power. Somehow I don’t see you as a person who readily gives up your personal power. I believe that if a person is man/woman enough to make a choice about anything, they need to step up and accept responsibility for that choice instead of claiming to be a choiceless victim.
Be careful of the words you use when you say allowing gay marriage wouldn’t undermine the sanctity of marriage, because sanctity means holiness or saintliness, which ties right back to the Bible and abomination.
Your position, as I interpret it, is that you are seeking not to be denied something you want. But aren’t you also seeking to deny others of something they want to keep as it is?
You say it wouldn’t hurt anyone or change marriage to allow same-sex marriage. Would that be the same argument used by girls who wanted to join the Boy Scouts? But they were wrong. It would change the Boy Scouts and it did hurt them. Camping accommodations would have to be changed because the boys and girls cannot sleep in the same tents. Bathroom arrangements would have to be changed because opposite sexes cannot pee together. Activities would have to be changed because girls find some (most) boy activities yucky. Little boys don’t want to play with little girls, and if forced to, they will just not join. It has cost the Boy Scouts many thousands of dollars to defend their position and they have endured lots of negative press. And the really sad thing—the majority of girls in the country don’t even want to belong to the Boy Scouts.
You say you weep for America. Do you weep only for this one area? There are plenty of reasons to weep for America. You can weep because the principles upon which our country was founded are being eroded daily by minority interest groups. Please realize that when I use the word “minority” I am referring to a number less than 50% of the population. Weep because lawyers have sued the crap out of so many businesses that they have taken their jobs to third world countries. They get the same products for less money and are not restricted by liability laws and the danger of being used, or the high cost of unions. Weep because lawyers have sued the crap out of doctors so aggressively that many have quit practicing in high risk areas such as obstetrics, and some have quit medicine all together. Weep because the US has fallen from first place to 13th place in high school graduation rate. It is behind such countries as South Korea, the Czech Republic, and Slovenia. We are now the only country in the developed world where young people are less likely to graduate than their parents were. Weep because we are becoming a nation of non-producers who feel they are entitled to share in the fruits of the labor of producers. Yes, there are PLENTY of reasons to weep if you want to broaden your horizons.
Now, I’m sure you’re ready for me to shut up and I’m getting there. Lord knows it’s taken me long enough. I hope you appreciate that I devoted most of my weekend to ponder, research, and compose my response. That’s how important you are to me. Do I believe you have a right to your point of view and a right to fight for it? You bet I do—whether I agree or embrace it. However, with that right comes responsibility—the responsibility to research your facts and not be blindly led by the media. Incidentally, the media keeps these sorts of things stirred up with their irresponsible reporting tactics. And they do it not because they believe in your cause, but because the generation of negativity creates more news for them to report on. They have changed from really reporting the news to actually creating the news just to keep themselves in business and highly-paid. They are serving only themselves and don’t give a tinker’s ding dong about you or your cause.
Now, do I love you less because your point of view does not agree with mine? No, I don’t. Do you love me less because my point of view does not agree with yours? I hope not.

By: M.O.M.

M.O.M. — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:14:30 +0000

What Pam points out makes a lot of sense; If you take the personal emotions out of it (hard to do the closer to something you are) they are voting only on the definition of marriage. If you think about it though, comparing same-sex unions to interracial unions is like comparing apples to oranges (I didn’t mean that as a color thing). They aren’t dictating how anyone can feel or with whom they can live. I think we know and have seen that all relationships suffer from the same problems; infidelity, abuse, divorce — a definition won’t change that. I don’t think they’re saying, “you can’t call a gay couple a married couple ‘cuz they’ll bring down the curve!” Like Pam, I have to go back to the word of God for my answers, as did our Founding Fathers of this country — & that’s how God defines marriage; a man and a woman. The majority isn’t always right and so shouldn’t force change on the righteous few, and by the same token the minority shouldn’t be allowed to force change for the majority. And yet, it happens all the time. And if you wait long enough, this too will change lol. Everyone processes information through the filter on the lens of their experience, education, & desires, which is why we can always find multiple opinions on a single subject. It’s good to have passion about issues, as long as people don’t make the mistake of presenting an opinion or desire as a principle or the truth. Opinions/wants, change. Truth & principles, don’t change. This business of being P.C. by saying, “that’s your truth, that’s not my truth” is a bunch of hooey (in my opinion, of course). There is only THE TRUTH & it’s not an opinion — regardless of the passion behind it, or the number of people supporting same — if you jump off a tall building, gravity will still cause your body to drill into the ground like a freakin’ dart, no matter how many people agree differently, that is the truth & won’t change . My suggestion for people is to try applying the desire you have for a particular issue to a different situation to see if it holds up. If it causes you to think differently about the other situation, you have a want & opinion, not a principle or the truth. Whether you stand by yourself, or with a million others, it still doesn’t change what the truth is. We are born with a sin nature, and God gave us free will — without applying His laws/word in our lives there is the propensity for wrong choices & evil doing — in case you’re wondering, I know this from personal experience. Now, I am one of many Christians that walk closely with the Lord, & I have a close relationship with Jesus because I know His word is THE truth. We are who He says we are, we have what He says we have, & we can do what He says we can do! Having said that, I am aware that there are Christians that, although they’ve been baptized, professing that Jesus is who God says He is, choose not to have as close of a relationship with Him because they choose to live outside of His will & His word in certain areas of their lives. But make no mistake, this country was absolutely built on Godly principles — henceforth the “One Nation, UNDER God.” We are granted freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. So, our country allows people to choose, as God does, but the law is still the law, & there are consequences if not followed. What a wonderful country we have where you are free to choose so many things that you can’t choose in a “lesser” country But being allowed to choose is not the same as being given equal rights. That is as it should be. If you have 5% of this country that choose a different belief than the other 95%, this country says you can choose to think differently, just don’t insist the other 95% say we agree and if we don’t change what we believe, we’re wrong! Gets tricky, doesn’t it? There have always been clubs you get into and clubs of which you’re left out. Some things are set up a certain way — sometimes they change in time, and sometimes they should be left well enough alone. Do we really need girls in the Boy Scouts or boys in the Girl Scouts? It’s our nature to want what we don’t/can’t have — I want curly hair and my sister wants straight hair…but I digress. There are legal and moral definitions for everything — and for good reason (we can be such heathens when left with only ourselves to consult for guidance lol). For instance; Some people think that if someone is standing in the way of them getting what they want, & feel they deserve, then they have the right to remove that person — even by death! They could probably find a lot of people who think the same way — “I’m gonna get mine, by any means possible! The ends justify the means.” And it might surprise you to know that they don’t see anything wrong with it. Again, we all have filters on our lens. That’s why we have man’s law, and ultimately, God’s law. To live a hedonistic life (if it feels good, do it) is to live beneath our God-given ability. You might look around you & say, “I’m the same (if not better than) most of these people I see.” But for some people (and you especially, Dean) normal or average is a failure of potential. We’ll stumble and fall short if we set our sights on what man thinks. We need only to use God’s words as stepping stones to a humble life filled with blessings & grace. After all, GRACE is simply God’s Riches At Christ’s Expense! I realize there are those that don’t have a relationship with the Lord, and so they don’t have God’s word from which to make a choice, I’m just glad I do (or I’d be more out there than I already am (stifle yourself, Dean ) We won’t always understand, or know, why people think/believe what they do. There’s no accounting for some people’s tastes, including my own. God calls us to be accepting, tolerant, & forgiving — all of which we can do while loving the person who chooses differently. But we are not called to conform to the world. The world’s view on things changes as people change their opinions & desires & become de-synthesized through repetitiveness, but God’s word is the same yesterday, today, & always — because it is THE truth & not opinion or desires. We are sometimes deceived into making the wrong decision, as the very definition of the word deceived is to not be able to see the truth (I have some personal examples I could insert here, but have rationalized and justified that it’s not right to do so ‘cuz this is your website and it’s not “all about me” hee, hee). I believe God’s word is our “light” on any & every subject. I have faith & trust in Him. I love you Dean, unconditionally. Let’s all love each other, flaws and all — good, bad, right, wrong & indifferent! I was really hoping to end with something more profound, but that’s what came to mind. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and allowing us to share ours.

By: Pam

Pam — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 07:46:40 +0000

WOW! Where do I start? If you are a Christian as I am you first and foremost believe in God and His Word as your standard. That becomes the gage that all things are measured against. Gods Word says, and we understand that Marriage is sacred. And we know that He created it. And God also defined His covenant union as He established it. You can find this in the Bible. Adam and Eve (one man and one woman). It was not about feelings or two people being in love or wanting to share their lives together. The design of marriage was a reflection of Christ and the church and He himself created a man and gave him a woman (he actually created her out of the man) and said that the two should become one, He also said be fruitful and multiply, indicating what He expected them to do married (two as one) was to multiply. Again reinforcing Man and Woman. So that settles the issue for me. As for how a church spends its money I can see no better way for them to spend their money than to standup for the foundational structure of that faith. The purpose of the church was to spread God’s Word and the good news of Jesus Christ and as we do that we are to love with actions such as feed the poor help the needy. As people as Individuals we all have choices to make in regards to how we spend/live our life. I would find it counter productive to spend my time deciding something God has established and settled a long time ago. I do not know what the future holds for this country but I know who holds the country and I know not everyone will agree with me on that. My allegiance is with God and His Word. It’s not so much about what I don’t want but what God’s Word says is right. I could not believe in God and His word and stand on any other side. Being a Christian isn’t always popular but I not seeking approval or permission. I have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours studying the Bible and the more I study the more profoundly deep yet simple Gods plan is, we can not add to or take away from and hope to ever improve on it. Most people who do not value God’s Word I find have never studied the Word and most of their opinions are based air and misconceptions. Education is a key to freedom in any area of life. I will close and leave the solutions of the world to the rest of you its past my bed time.

By: Kelsey Little

Kelsey Little — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:13:54 +0000

Thank you for responding to my thoughts, I fell very strongly about them as I am sure you do about you thoughts and opinions. The following words are just more of the stuff in my head that I think and fell strongly about. They are not words of hate, only an opinion as we all have opinions.
Where will the deffiniton of marriage stop? Will it stop with same sex marriage. Remember there are people out there that want multiple partners in marriage, and some have entered into plural marriage by walking around the law and more want to. There are adults that want to marry children of the opposite sex and of the same sex. Is it possible that we should include those that want bestiality. I only ask because in the Bible there was polygamy and polygamy is still practiced in many areas/religions of the world but it is illegal in the USA. I am not targeting anyone but those that want to change the definition of marriage. Right now only the same sex marriage group seems to be challenging the definition of marriage. Remember it was not that long ago that many tried to get plural marriage passed in this country and the religious groups got together and stopped it also.
Stupid has nothing to do with it. You live in this country and it has laws formed buy its people. If you believe these laws to be wrong than you should step up and work to change them. If the law is changed,for example abortion, than you say well that is the law now. I believe that abortion is murder and I believe that our governments stand, the law, is wrong but it is the law. Our society is changing, for you must agree that the Gay community has greater acceptance now than it did only a few years ago. Those in this country of black heritage are still fighting prejudice from some others in our great nation but I think you would have to admit we have come a long way. I also think that some people will always have their prejudices but are troubles would end if we would remember the point of law you do not have to agree with the law only obey until you can change it.
I have had a few conversations with someone I respect and love dearly and we disagree on the point of, should marijuana and other drugs be made legal. His point is that marijuana and other illegal drugs really aren’t that much different than alcohol and should be regulated and controlled/taxed. I disagree strongly because I believe that the greater use of marijuana and other illegal drugs will degrade our society. My view was gained from a first hand experience and I say that should count for more that your view because you do not use and don’t want to, you just think that if the government will regulate and tax these products it will be no different that alcohol and will reduce crime. If his way becomes law I won’t like it and I will believe it is a bad law but it would be the law and I will live under it because I love this country and the freedom I enjoy. He could be right, maybe?
The family unit, raising children, is a part of this and is important and I believe that changing the definition of marriage is changing the basic family unit and I don’t want to see that change. I think we all need to look at the big picture and how changing one law will effect other laws, not just the question at hand. If it matters much I think we all know that over time we will see many laws change, it is only a matter of time before it happens. Lets not forget that it was not to long ago that most people would say you will never see a man of black heritage or a woman as President. One down one to go, right!
Interracial marriage was taboo not to long ago and people who practiced it were ostracized from family and loved ones, looked down on by a large portion of society. Yet now it seems that it is other countries that have a bigger problem with this than we do now. Funny how things change over time, isn’t it.
Once again this idea that we do not make a choice is being brought up. There are many people male and female that I care for and love. Some of these feelings are very strong. As you might say, I would want this person to be a part of my life forever. My choice for a partner in life is female, I am male, and that is a choice and we all make a choice, none of us are forced. I do agree that loving someone and having that person in your life is very important and I would not try to say differently. I only choose differently than some others, that does not make me wrong, only my choice. Please don’t tell me that you really believe I am suppressing you, please don’t use words like disturbing because we have different points of view. Step up to the plate and be responsible for the choices you make. You live in a country that has laws you don’t agree with, welcome to my world because I to do not agree with all the laws of this land and I for one think that the taking of a life, abortion, is pretty dam important. So I will step up and vote for what I want my country to be, funny thing though there seem to be allot of people that think differently than me, how can there be that many people in this country that are wrong because I am right, right?
As I have always said, “Opinions are like rear ends we all have one and some of them stink”. I know some might think mine does and I might think others do but isn’t it great to live in a country were we can express them and move forward to help each other understand or not and just argue and say hateful things. America you got to love it! I know I do even though I want to change it to fit me.
Thank you Dean.

By: Dean

Dean — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:38:47 +0000

@Dan
The churches are all claiming that they’re not targeting a specific group in their campaigning to get these propositions passed, but what’s sad is that’s exactly what they’re doing. The whole purpose and wording of these propositions is to make same-sex marriage unconstitutional and against the law – how is this not targeting homosexual couples? There are so many more things this money the churches are raising could be going to; expanding their congregation, feeding the homeless, providing safe havens for abused spouses and children, etc. But what do they spend their money on? Keeping loving couples from being able to marry each other just because they happen to be of the same sex. But in the same breath, they openly admit to having no qualms with granting same sex couples hospital and medical rights, and other various platitudes, just not the big one we’ve been asking for. Thanks for trying to ply us with candy in order to get us to forget about the bigger issues, but we’re not that stupid.

@Kelsey Little
I also fully believe that the best home for a child is with a male and female loving parental role. And while my views on gay adoption are an issue for a whole different post (though I’ll state now that I fully support it for a number of reasons), that is not related to Proposition 8 in California. They shouldn’t have been worrying about raising families or any such nonsense. Gay couples have the same ability to raise families with or without marriage; that shouldn’t have even been part of the discussion. The only issue at hand was whether or not same-sex couples could legally wed, and it was kicked out from under us. Statistically speaking, the amount of interracial couples in America is far outweighed by the number of couples that marry within their same ethnic background, but just because their situation is a minority doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be allowed to happen. You don’t choose who you love. Male, female, black, white, it’s all the same when it comes down to it. Love sees beyond skintone and goes to the root of a person’s heart and soul. You love someone for who they are, not what they are or what they look like. The fact is, allowing gay marriage wouldn’t hurt anyone and wouldn’t undermine the so-called sanctity of marriage, but it’s going to be presented that way for years to come. It’s sad and disturbing, but the harsh truth of the lengths others will go to in order to get their way at the expense of supressing others.